Islamic prayer tower goes up in St. Louis!

I'm shaking as I write this from the shock of finding out that a tall prayer tower is being erected in St. Louis, Missouri - complete with loud speakers according to Gateway Pundit who got the information and pictures from Republican Riot.

KSOK Channel 5 said the tower is called a minaret, and such structures are found accompanying most mosques in the world. When it's finished, the minaret will stretch 107 feet into the air --- The imam at the mosque says it will not be used as a public address system, despite reports on some radio talk shows.

So the prayer tower is for looks only?  I've got to go take some Tylenol.

There is an interesting update to this story here.

(GP Photo)

Update 2/20/08:  A national Muslim civil rights organization has asked the FBI to investigate what it considers threats made on the Internet against a Bosnian mosque in St. Louis. The comments were made on at least two blogs and related to a posting about a minaret being built at the mosque.

Another blog, called "Little Green Footballs," linked to the "Gateway Pundit" post, and several comments on "Little Green Footballs," caused the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations to contact the FBI, said Ibrahim Hooper, the council's spokesman.

"We ourselves get these kinds of hate messages and threats frequently," Hooper said. "But you never know who's just talking and who's going to carry out some these threats, so you have to check them out."

St. Louis Today

Comments

[zTruth]

Southsider

It's is a pity you have given up. You tried to provide us information about the peace of Islam in certain countries and was proven wrong. The problem you had is there is a lot of documentation about how Islam is practiced in Islamic countries which doesn't match any version of Islam that Muslims in America try to convince us to believe. What they say is seriously compromised by the facts.

You are wrong that most of the information on zTruth is from JihadWatch. I try to find additional sources of news and data other than the standard anti-Islamists websites to add to the body of evidence that Islamists are a serious threat to our country and the world.

[southsider]

The combination of "I am not and un-read ugly american" with a sign off of "seeyadon'twannabeya" was too much for me. Once I recovered from laughing, I realized that engaging in this conversation any further was a profound waste of my time. I informed those who may have been reading and are able to think with out fear of others about the Bosnians in st. Louis and the minaret. I have had no problem understanding any of what you have said; either here or in the rest of your site. None of it, after all, is very original, sites such Jihadwatch and others are most likely your primary source of information on the world. But none the less you still demonstrate quite nicely how patriotism is twisted into nationalism and how closely linked Nationalism is to fascism. Not to mention how notions of "cultural purity" and religiosity are interwoven into this. No, your fear and hatred of others comes across loud and clear. by the way, I am not even Muslim...just able to recognize that the actions of some don't condemn the whole, which is why as a rule, I don't write people off because of what they are, but how they act and speak. Bye.

[keith]

I think the city of St.Louis should invoke the writ of public domain and use the minaret to broadcast the Cardinal's play by play of their baseball games, with the biggest American Flag THEY can find on the top. This is just my opinion and I have right to say it so to all you moslems who are offended by it Kiss OFF

[Major]

Southsider: Does the cat have your tongue since I pointed out that the countries you said were at peace lacked religious freedom and expression?

[KEITH]

southsider: I can understand why you admire the Bosnian Immigrants that have resetteled in the City of St.Louis. With hard work they have brought renewal to areas in a city suffering from urban decline and decay. Yes, I have been to St.Louis and no I don't plan on returning. Congrats on being in the top five of America's most dangerous cities. The bosnians probably feel right at home given their past History of violence. The point of my statements was very clear,but you seem to have a hard time understanding what I was saying. Dismissing my opinions as hysterical rants. I do not have a problem with a Mosque or a minaret being built in St.Louis. I do not consider it a threat to my faith. I am strong in my convictions to God, but you however admit to know nothing of God. You call my faith into Question when you admit to you own lack of. The point of my statements are simple" America is tolerant of Islam but Islam is not tolerant of America. The minaret is a symbol of Islam and its oppresive nature. I am not a un-read ugly American, who is so short sighted as to not understand the contribution of immigrants. Immigration History Is American History. The two can not be seperated. They come here to make a better life for themselves. I have no problem with Legal Immigration. Please read the following taken from "Islam" by John A. Williams, Braziller Pub. Pg 133 Question : " When in several Muslim villages there is not a single Mosque, and the inhabitants do not perform the congregational prayers, must the authorities force them to build a mosque and punish those who neglect to pray there. Answer: Yes. Express edicts were issued for the attention of the of local rulers, that they compel the inhabitants of such villages to constuct mosques and establish regular prayers. The call to prayer is one of the distinguishing characters of Islam, so that if the people of a town or village refuse, the Iman should force them, and if they do not do it, he should take up arms against them. And if the people of a town neglect the call to prayer, the performance of prayer, and the congregational prayers, he must fight them, for these are the earmarks and outward signs of religion" Excuse me, say what? You admit to being confused by what I mean when refering to a Islamic country. For the sake of Clarification shall we refer to these countries as Islamic controlled countries, since the very definition of a Muslin is " One who submits to Allah". I was impressed by the examples you gave of Islamic Countries that are tolerant of Christians and allow Churches {not}. You List" Eygpt for One" O.K except the laws in Egypt are stacked against Christians. Ex. A christian Church Must be Approved for repairs by a special committee of clerics, and try to get a permit to Build a new one, yeah right like thats' going to happen. These obstacles do not apply when wanting to build or repair mosque.Oh and we can't foget Qatar who just began to allow churches. The keyword there is "just". I guess the other examples of Muslim countries tolerant of Christianity are just to numerous to list.Your argument is so weak, I had to laugh out loud. Finally in closing, I feel a little angry, when you Think it is your place to lecture me on "The blood of American Patriots" That statement refers to all Patiots who served and sacrificed to fight opression and preserve our right to live as free men. If you want to keep score on whos genealogy contains more American Patriots you will lose. seeyadon'twannebyou

[Major]

Southsider said four countries were at Islamic peace: Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, and Mauritania. But the question was is there any Islamic country that is the model for Islam. By that I mean, is there any Islamic country that matches the form of Islam taught to Americans by those who have immigrated to the U.S.?

No one has been able to answer that question because there is no such country that I can find.

Peace, you say? At what price are their citizens paying, southsider? Let me enlighten you - they lack religious freedom and expression. This is the price the citizens of the 4 countries you said were at "peace" are paying. These countries hold their citizens in serious Islamic check. No criticizing of the state religion - Islam is ever allowed. That would be against Sharia Law, now wouldn't it?

Why does this not bother you? You either are ill-informed or you are dishonest about the lack of freedom the citizens of these countries have. Have you ever thought of this?

Why don't you and other Muslims, especially those in leadership, speak up for these people? Why don't you lead an effort to hold American Muslim leaders accountable so their words and teachings about Islam match their actions. There is no compulsion in religion you tell us from the teachings of the Quran. Really?

Barhrain: The Constitution states that Islam is the official religion and that Shari'a (Islamic law) is a principal source for legislation. No freedom of religion here.

Oman: The Basic Law, in accordance with tradition, declares that Islam is the state religion and that Shari'a is the source of legislation.

Mauritania: The 1991 Constitution establishes the country as an Islamic republic and recognizes Islam as the religion of its citizens and the state. However, a military junta took power in August 2005, overthrew the elected president---On April 19, 2007, the junta and transitional government returned control to a democratically elected president in free and fair elections.

Both governments limited freedom of religion by prohibiting the distribution of non-Islamic religious materials and the proselytization of Muslims. No Christian can talk to a Muslim about Christianity. It is forbidden.

Yemen: The Constitution declares that Islam is the state religion, and that Shari'a (Islamic law) is the source of all legislation.

Not one of these countries serves as a model for Islam. Yet we countinue to hear from Muslims in America there is no compulsion in religion.

Want to bet?

Why would I read books that southsider suggests? The only book I've read and studied about Islam is the Quran - the ultimate source of a total a complete system of life for Muslims - including government.

[southsider]

This was answered in an earlier post. Please read. Better yet, read for real; not just blogs, but books. Try Noel Malcolm's "A brief history of Bosnia", read "The Cambridge history of Turkey", or just try "Turkey" in a wikipedia search (Turkey by the way being the number one suggestion to answer your "question.") Read about Islam and I mean something other than the polemics of Robert Spencer or Bernard Lewis. Read about Sufism, about Wahhabism, learn what Shi'a and Sunni are, read about the difference between Ash'ari or Mu'tazili or any other school or tradition within Islam. Read about the rise and fall of the Byzantine Empire, The Ottoman Empire, The Hapsburgs, read about out own involvement in the coup that overthrew Mossadegh. Read about the Iranian Revolution, read about Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, read Ahmed Rashid's "Taliban" What I am saying is, read histories, read accounts. Good ones, complicated ones, histories that don't gloss, but get at all the glorious, messy, chaotic and complex details. Our relationship with Iran didn't start in 1979. For that matter neither did the "western" world's relationship with Islam. Further Islam is not the monolithic entity that most Americans seem to think it is. Frankly I am not sure how Islam was taught to you, it seems as if it wasn't taught at all. The fact that you seem convinced that all "Islamic countries" can be judged the same is a clear indication of that. I first learned about Islam from extremely strict Jesuit priests. Since then I have had the pleasure of learning more from friends and not surprisingly Islam turns out to be a religion practiced by people. Like pretty much every other religion. But like Christianity, and Judaism it is central to huge portions of western civilization. How many of you reading this knew that the Ottoman Emperors were long intermarried into both the ruling families of Byzantium and other ruling European families. Our histories (and our cultures) are not in some unique "clash of civilizations" If they are, we are "clashing" with our own civilizations, as no one history sits distinct and untouched by others until now, especially ours. Finally to make that point and pull this whole long scattered thread that in the end has has nothing to do with a Bosnian community building a minaret (other than people living up to the quote by Livy that "we fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them") a little closer to home; The Bosnian Islamic community in Chicago recently celebrated their 100 year anniversary, (which was attended by the mayor of Chicago, the various mayors of the northern suburbs, and the governor of Illinois)..Peace, Mir, Shalem, Paz, Pax.

[Major]

An Islamic country has Islam as its driving force - like in the constitution it states it's the official relgion, or its in the laws, such as Sharia Law, or it's in the practices. Many Islamic countries say they have religious freedom but their laws and practices severely restrict this from happening. Like being unable to change your religion on your ID card from Islam to Christian.

What do I mean by model? Is there one Islamic country that practices Islam as it is taught to us in America?

[southsider]

uh, my blog name is Southsider, STLsouthsider is one of your brethren in spirit who posted the comment about a child molester. I would image that the community paid for the minaret, tithing is a basic Islamic requirement. and I have a question, what exactly do you think an "islamic country?" is? There are many, many different types of states in the parts of the world that are predominantly Muslim. "Islamic country" is basically a meaningless descriptor. I am also not sure what you mean by "model", I can tell you my opinion about certain countries, but whether or not a country is a "model" for something is pretty subjective. The US for instance is in some cases a "model" of greedy capitalistic corporate agendas; it's also a "model" of democracy. If by a "model" you mean a country that is both Islamic and secular, then well Turkey is one, Oman is certainly and interesting contender for status as a "model", Kazakhstan is another (Kazakhstan's government banned Wahhabism by the way) Oh, I guess I need to explain what Wahhabism is?

[Major]

STLsouthsider:

The prayer tower there in St. Louis is a free standing structure towering over everything else around. It acutually looks out of place, to me. Who paid for it?

It's funny how you commend its Ottoman style. Now wasn't the Islamic Ottoman Empire an example of Islamic rule that seized other coutries? Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Can you name one Islamic country that is a model for Islam?

[southsider]

Dear Keith
what does any of what you have said have to do with a mosque in South St. Louis, Missouri, USA? We should ban other religions because somewhere in the world, where you do not live, someone discriminates against "you"? Isn't the whole point of our democracy that we aren't a oppressive regime? In fact, this is a very strong argument for the mosque and minaret. For those who are terrified of the idea that they might actually hear the call to prayer; is your own faith so shaky that you would be in mortal danger for having heard the call to prayer? I have no choice but to hear church bells ringing on occasion. But it is not a legitimate infringement on my rights as a "I have no idea about God, I just try to be a good person" As for your slippery slope argument (Islamic courts etc.) it is illogical and based on a hysterical emotional appeal, not on any true assessment of the political or social history of the United States. Basically you claim that 1. A has occurred (a minaret) 2. B will inevitably happen. (a separate Islamic court)3. B is wrong (for a democratic and multi-ethnic society); therefore 4. A is wrong. (the minaret). It is also a form of conjunction fallacy; the chances of all of the different things that would need to happen to have a functioning separate Islamic court that somehow then impinges on you or your rights is nil. Actually the basis of your argument is flawed as induction analogy as well. Finally as a point of fact there are Christian churches in predominantly Islamic countries, try Egypt for one, which has one of the oldest Christian populations. Qatar has just opened a large Christian church, and there are others as well. Actually, currently Saudi Arabia is the only gulf state left with an official government ban on churches. As for Muslim countries that are at peace, do you mean Islamic states? or states with Islam as the official religion? or states with a majority Muslim population? well I will start with the first: Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, Mauritania are some who are at peace, as well as Saudi Arabia, although their tendency to meddle should be held against them in this regard. As for states where the official religion is Islam: Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Bangladesh, Morocco, Maldives...as for secular states with majority Muslim populations; Turkey, Burkina Faso, Mali, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Albania...there are more. These are not to say that any of these nations are perfect, but they are at peace. In many of the places I have listed, reform continues to work it's way through the system and the population. Others have shakier human rights status, but are not dangerous places by any stretch of the imagination. Others, such as Turkey and Kazakhstan have a solid modern history of both secular government and minority rights. May I ask, did you have any sort of specific point you were trying to make with your very "little history" for me? Because some of the men who fought at the side of our "founding fathers" were my founding fathers, literally. I am the descendant of 17th century immigrants to this nation and the descendant of many "American patriots." I also have friends and loved ones who have been deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan. Step carefully into the arena of using statements like "the blood of American patriots" Finally, you can be as upset about the minaret as you like (or are likely to be), but I urge others to actually learn about world politics, social and political histories and the world in general before getting hysterical about architecture.

[keith]

Dear southsider
thanks for the history lesson about the bosnian muslims. I agree that the minaret being built is a testimony to our great society. Our freedom to worship is a basic human right our founding fathers set forth in creating this country. That idea has been fought for and paid for with the blood of American Patriots. Not only here on U.S. soil, but all over the world, including Bosnia. That's just a little U.S. History for your information. Ask yourself this, Mosques and minarets are allowed in our free society, but a Chistian church is not in Islamic countries. It will only be a matter of time before the call to prayer starts eminating from the tower. Non muslims will have no choice but to hear the call. Then the muslims will need to have a special islamic court seperate from U.S. courts and so on and so on. Please give me an example of a muslim country that is at peace?

[STLsouthsider]

First, the dzamija that this minaret has been built next to is not "Arab" It is Bosnian and is one of several that serve the approximately 50,000 Bosnian Muslims [Bosnijak] population in St. Louis [although no where near all 50,000 of them attend the mosque regularly]. Second as an immigrant population the Bosnians [and that includes, Muslim (who are the majority), Orthodox and Catholic] have been an incredible boon to the city of St. Louis. They have revitalized a nearly completely dead portion of the city. Because of their hard work, the value of houses have gone up in the area, there is finally a half way decent tax base in the area, and for the first time in decades the neighborhood where they settled has family owned businesses that are thriving, bars, restaurants, tax accountants, insurance agency, coffeehouses, bakeries, bookstores and more. There are more than fifty Bosnians from all over the nation who serve in the United States Marine Corp and as many in other branches of the Armed forces. In addition, several of them also now proudly serve their nation and their city in the city police force. Third: The Bosnian Muslims are a very old and important population of "native" European Muslims. They have spent their entire history living side by side with Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and Judaism, not to mention communism after World War II. That is until 1992, when, as the targets of a genocidal policy hatched in Serbia and brought to horrific existence in Bosnia, tens of thousands of them ended up as refugees in other nations. In a aggression; politically, financially and militarily back by Serbia, and carried out by both the Serbian remnants of the Jugoslav National Army, Serbian Paramilitary and Bosnian Serb paramilitary units, close to a million people were displaced, hundreds of thousands were killed, tens of thousands were forcibly imprisoned, tortured, and raped. An estimated 200,000 Bosnian lost their lives in the war, and to this day, close to 13,000 are still unaccounted for. Their families are praying that the bodies will be found in any one of the mass graves still waiting to be found. In the area around the city of Prijedor more than 52 mass graves have been exhumated. The largest had over 500 bodies dumped into it. In regions taken over by Serbian war criminals, there was a systematic attempt to wipe the Bosnian Muslims from the face of the earth. Mosques were dynamited, peoples homes were looted and then fire-bombed. Libraries and Museums were fire-bombed, including the Sarajevo national library, which when it burnt consumed over 1.5 million volumes, not to mention the holding of over 155,000 rare books and the nation's archive of newspapers. Cemeteries were destroyed, and in the city of Sarajevo, when people attempted to bury those murdered by shells and sniper fire, they were often the next targets for snipers, who deliberately aimed at cemeteries, knowing that the dead had to be buried. And so, the people who have built this minaret, are the same people who having survived all of this, came to the United States, rebuilt their lives, and made our city better. Don't like the minaret in South St. Louis? then you don't ever have to come here. As for St. Louis, we are very happy with our new neighbors, and their beautiful Ottoman style minaret. It is in the end, not only a symbol of faith for Muslims, but a very proud symbol of the fundamental basis of our society, our freedom. Finally, if you want to rant and rave and get upset about something like this, perhaps it would be good to ACTUALLY KNOW something about it.

[tfff]

Funny how one small decision by a megalomaniac child molester in Arabia 1400 years ago causes his sheep to go and spend their hard earned dollars (or is it welfare checks?) on this atrocity. I thought Arabs would have more sense.

Islam totally destroys the brain.

[Donna]

Th Islamification of America will take place in long, slow steps. Stay tuned...