zTruth

Debate on Islam: Chris Hitchens vs. Tariq Ramadan

“If you want diversity, you need a secular state with a godless constitution. Secularism is the only guarantee of religious freedom.”   -----Christopher Hitchens

Here's a snipette from a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Tariq Ramadan title Is Islam a Religion of Peace? moderated by Laurie Goodstein, October 5, 2010 at the 92nd Street Y in New York. More was written about the debate here at Vanity Fair, which I encourage you to read:

 

-----

Also see:

A Conversation With Tariq Ramadan 4/27/10

Controversial Tariq Ramadan to speak at Oklahoma City University

 This Mondy the highly controversial, and suspected covert-Islamist, Tariq Ramadan gave a lecture titled "A Radical Reform of Muslim Minds” at Oklahoma City University in the Wanda L. Bass Music Center at NW 25 and Blackwelder Avenue in Oklahoma City.  Professor Mohamed Daadaoi of OCU claimed in the NewsOK article his talk is needed because of the push-back Muslims are getting from their Islamic activism.  Of course, he didn't word it quite that way but expressed it as their alleged victimhood.

Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of the founder of the Islamic supremacist Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna. He is the son of Said Ramadan a prominent Muslim Brotherhood figure who was expelled from Egypt by Gamal Abdel Nasser, according to Oxford Islamic Studies.

They were Islamists. Hamas was created from the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine with goals to destroy Israel for Islam which is a big part of their religious goals.  Ramadan was banned from entering the U.S. in 2004 for allegedly contributions to an Hamas-linked charity.  It apparently wasn't an issue for the current administration because Hillary Clinton personally lifted the ban. Ramadan is a strong critic of American foreign policy, just like most Islamists.  They want to take down our democracy.

Ramadan wrote of his admiration and reverence for his grandfather's religious life's work. This is a man who was assassinated for his religous extremism after a brotherhood member killed the Prime Minister of Egypt.  Disturbing.  I am unaware he has denounced the Muslim Brotherhood.

al-Banna once wrote that Islamic scholars:

"Agree unanimously that jihad is a communal defensive obligation imposed upon the Islamic ummah in order to broadcast the summons (to embrace Islam), and that it is an individual obligation to repulse the attack of unbelievers upon it." As a result of unbelievers ruling Muslim lands and humbling Muslim honor: "It has become an individual obligation, which there is no evading, on every Muslim to prepare his equipment, to make up his mind to engage in jihad, and to get ready for it until the opportunity is ripe and God decrees a matter which is sure to be accomplished."  Five Tracts of Hasan al-Banna (1906-1949): A Selection from the Majmu‘at Rasa’il al-Imam al-Shahid, translated by Charles Wendell (Berkeley, University of California Press, 1978), page 150-151

Can anyone provide me with Ramadan's specific denouncement of the Muslim Brotherhood Islamic supremacy idealogy?

CAIR is an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas infrastructure in America which is documented in several court cases.  Professor Daadaoui has participated in several venues with them. Are you surprised?  The Muslim Brotherhood set up a number of national organizations which were identified in their own document for their plans to take over America - slowly, incrementally over a long period of time.

Mohamed Daadaoui writes a blog called Maghred Blog. On Sharia law he wrote:

"A must-read on Sharia and political Islam. Johnson relies on the latest Gallup poll 2008 results which indicates a new understanding of how Muslims view Shari'a, not as a corpus of legal codes promoting theocracy, but good governance. Shari'a has become a manifesto for liberating Muslims from corrupt governments. The challenge remains in chaotic regions, where there is a power vacuum, such as Northwestern Pakistan and Somalia, where tribal leaders have perverted Quranic and Hadithic texts to suit their fossilized view of the religion."

Are you paying attention?

Update 10/11/10:  The Region: The declaration of war that went unnoticed‎
Jerusalem Post - Barry Rubin

Here's something important: The Muslim Brotherhood's leader has endorsed anti-American jihad and a view virtually identical to al-Qaida's ideology. ...Yet here is the Brotherhood’s new supreme guide, Muhammad Badi giving a sermon entitled, “How Islam Confronts the Oppression and Tyranny,”

-----

Also see:

Ramadan was the keynote speaker at CAIR National banquet Sat, Oct 9, 2010.  At this event disgraced White House reporter Helen Thomas was given a life time achievement award.

An April 9th interview with Tariq Ramadan with Democracy Now  They want changes in America!

Live, From New York, It’s Tariq Ramadan 4/9/10

The discussion was called, “Secularism, Islam, & Democracy,” but what it was really about was figuring out how far the West should go to accommodate its Muslim population (and how far it shouldn’t).

“Now is not the time to speak about integration, but about contribution,” he argues. He quickly gets on a roll, speaking faster and faster. “They ask, ‘Are you first American, or first a Muslim?’ It’s a silly question. I don’t answer silly questions. I have multiple identities.”  Ramadan said.

A Conversation with Tariq Ramadan  3/2010  Video

Religion doesn't inspire violence.

Dutch University Fires Islamic Scholar Ramadan: Dutch university fired Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan on Tuesday for hosting a show on Iran's state television, which the school said could be seen as ...

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder wants Barack Obama as president 11/3/08 _ (I predicted his visa ban would be lifted)

Tariq Ramadan: You cannot call Hezbollah a terrorist group!

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder seeks entry into the U.S.!

A Muslim Scholar Raises Hackles in France

Hasan Al-Banna Young Muslims Canada archived webpage

=====

Other posts on Ramadan

Tariq Ramadan will speak in America about jihad for young hearts

"I am critical towards the American policy—I have been—and very much against the Bush administration ," --- Tariq Ramadan 4/9/2010

 

Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of the founder of the Islamic Supremacy Muslim Brotherhood who was banned from entering the U.S. on allegations he gave to a charity that funded Hamas. On Wednesday, he arrived in America after Sec. Hilliary Clinton removed the ban. He certainly couldn't have picked a more provacative title for his first lecture in America: "Jihad Within Young Hearts: Toward a Positive Engagement."

By the way, he is still banned in Egypt and 5 other Islamic mahority countries.

...The lecture is being sponsored by Sound Vision, an Islamic media company in Chicago headed by Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid, a leader in Chicago's Muslim community.

Mujahid said the previous ban on Ramadan "was ill advised considering he was among the top intellectuals of the world." He added that "Notre Dame's loss can't be compensated, but...this can now open the door...Stopping Americans from hearing diverse voices is unconstitutional."

Supporters of Ramadan say he is a thoughtful academic who is reasonable.

Critics say that Ramadan promotes Islamic supremacy and extremism. Zuhdi Jasser, head of the Arizona-baesd American Islamic Forum for Democracy, said he "considers Ramadan a threat to American Muslims because he puts a passive face on the ideology of political Islam and the concepts of Islamic supremacy."

"While the words Muslim Brotherhood rarely leave his lips, Tariq Ramadan’s ideology is indistinguishable from the Brotherhood which is counter to the principles of liberty and freedom found here in America," Jasser said in a statement.

Ramadan could not be immediately reached. He says on his website that: "I am very happy and hopeful that I will be able to visit the United States very soon and to once again engage in an open, critical and constructive dialogue with American scholars and intellectuals."

He added: "Other governments — in the Near East — continue to ban me from their territory and forbid me to express myself freely. We must salute the progress accomplished by the United States — while remaining vigilant and critical of American policies...The road ahead is long."

Thanks Sec. Clinton for lifting the ban on this controversial Islamist.

-----

Also see:

An April 9th interview with Tariq Ramadan with Democracy Now

We want to see things happen in America, he said. --- And your father was friends with Macolm X? Why, why yes he was. This is a good interview because it gives insights into his anti-American Islamist mindset. He does talk a little about the Muslim Brotherhood and said he would support what his grandfather did - to fight against British colonialism but he failed to mention that the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood is to establish an Islamic supremacist state:

Tariq Ramadan coming to California!

Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Islamic supremacist organization called the Muslim Brotherhood.  Under the Bush administration he was banned from entering the United States over a reported contribution to a terrorist organization.  But, recently, Hillary Clinton personally signed the order to lift the ban on his visa.  First, The Council on American Islamic Relations in Chicago announced Ramadan will be their keynote speaker in April. 

Now, the Shura Council of California has announced he will also speak before their group. Ramadan has never denounced the Muslim Brotherhood and its religous supremacist ideology,  that I am aware. His father Said Ramadan was reportedly a top Muslim Brotherhood leader in Sweden:

 

Tariq Ramadan will be keynote speaker at CAIR Chicago!

The Dems help Islamists.

Secretary Hilliary Clinton recently signed an order to lift the hold on Tariq Ramadan's visa which had been in place for several years.  Lifting the hold allows Ramadan to apply for a new visa.   He is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. This global Islamist organization seeks an Islamic caliphate, a religiously supremacist ruling system, world-wide.

Yet, the State Department does not believe Ramadan is a threat to national security.

...But in the Secretary’s judgment, and consistent with President Obama’s outreach to the – to Muslims around the world, we want to encourage a global debate. We want to have the opportunity potentially to have Islamic scholars come to the United States and have dialogue with other faith communities and people here in our country.

I would disagree with their assessment.  Last August, Ramadan was fired from a Dutch university for a show he hosted on Iran's state TV. While, Ramadan may give the West the impression he is more of a moderate Muslim, he has not denounced his grandfather's Islamic supremacist ideology or this movement. He is highly critical of the U.S. foreign policy, just like the Muslim Brotherhood.  His father, Said Ramadan, was alleged to have been a prominent figure in this supremacist organization who was kicked out of Egypt and eventually settled in Switzerland.

Ramadan can only embolden Islamists.

I wonder if Sec. Clinton will allow Yusef Qaradawi, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood who studied under al-Banna, the right to come here, too. Must I remind everyone about the networks of Islamic fund-raising organizations set-up in America to support Hamas that were allowed to thrive under President Clinton. 

CAIR Chicago didn't waste any time here since Ramadan will be the keynote speaker at their banquet on April 10th.  

Update 2/26/10:  See CAIR Chicago First U.S. Appearance–Tariq Ramadan to Speak at 6th Annual CAIR-Chicago Banquet. 

The appearance of Professor Ramadan will be a milestone for the American Muslim community since he was banned from visiting the United States almost six years ago.  Late last month Secretary of State Hilary Clinton signed an order revoking Professor Ramadan’s visa ban.

This confirms Ramadan will be there in person.

The title of their banquet: "Unapologetic Activism"

flyer:  from CAIR Chicago

Also see:

The State Dept. Was Right (2006)

ON SEPTEMBER 20, the State Department denied a visa to Muslim scholar Tariq Ramadan on the grounds that he had contributed around 600 euros to a French charity classified as a terrorist organization since 2003 because of its relationship with the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas.

 

Tariq Ramadan visa ban lifted - CAIR is pleased!

Tariq Ramadan has been banned from the U.S. for a number of years due to his alleged support of a terrorist group. Now, the U.S. government has released the hold that prevented him from getting a visa during the Bush administration.  It allows him to reapply for a new visa.

This man is the grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.  To my knowledge, Ramadan has never denouced his grandfather's Islamic supremacist ideology.

The ACLU is so happy!

Update 2:24 PM:  CAIR, an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas infrastructure in America has issued a press release - they are so happy, too, 

Oh, you may like to know it was Sec. Hiliary Clinton who signed the order.

-----

Also see:

Dutch University Fires Islamic Scholar Ramadan

Dutch university fired Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan on Tuesday for hosting a show on Iran's state television, which the school said could be seen as ...

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder wants Barack Obama as president (I predicted his visa ban would be lifted)

Tariq Ramadan: You cannot call Hezbollah a terrorist group!

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder seeks entry into the U.S.!

A Muslim Scholar Raises Hackles in France

Tariq Ramadan: You cannot call Hezbollah a terrorist group!

Tariq Ramadan, the grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, has been trying to gain entry into the United States to live since 2004.

At the American University of Beirut last Thursday, Ramadan charged that America bans all democratically political groups who disagree with it.  He also shilled for Hezbollah!

"...The United States should not claim to be pushing for democracy when it bans all democratically elected groups who are critical of it, he noted.

Ramadan, who was speaking before a large audience at AUB said that the United States deals with Muslim-majority nations with the attitude of, "You are bad if you are against me. You are good if you are with me." He added that "this is a colonial mindset."

...On the other hand, all democratic Muslim political groups are critical of the United States, and that's what earns them the label of radical, Ramadan added.

...But Ramadan said that it is not possible to cancel groups who have a popular support base and are part of the country's political and social fabric. "Take Hizbullah, for instance, whether you agree with them or not, they are here, and have people who support them. You cannot call them terrorists. You have to talk with them. And talking doesn't mean you agree with their views, it only means that you recognize the complex dynamics of society. And this is real democracy," he said..."

This man should never be allowed into America!

-----

Also see:

Rotterdam: Municipality to investigate Ramadan tapes EuropeNews

Tariq Ramadan :: Apologists or Extremists :: The Investigative ... 

ACLU to Present Oral Arguments in Case of Prominent Muslim Scholar ...

 

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder seeks entry into the U.S.!

Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Islamic supremacy group, the Muslim Brotherhood. He has been trying to gain entry into the United States since 2004 Sensing an big opportunity with Obama's Islamist-friendly administration Ramadan is trying again.

In an article about al-Banna, Ramadan once wrote:

"...Within the core of his education, he had a very deep understanding of jihad al-nafs: to exist for God, alongside God, to reform one’s heart, purify one’s intentions, make time for the Most High before wanting to act in His name.

...Some years later, Hasan Al-Banna would make a meticulous compilation of all the written texts, uniquely taken from the Qur’an and the Sunnah, which had a spiritual virtue, particularly when it came to the exercise of the heart, of dhikr and meditation. This compilation, otherwise known as Risalat al-Ma’thurat, was the core of spiritual ed for all members of the Muslim Brotherhood. They were asked to read it, memorize it if possible, and recite it with fervour and concentration twice a day, morning and evening. At a very young age, and especially during the years of intense Islamic activity in the social and economic spheres, Hasan Al-Banna had understood that there was no future for Muslims if they did not recapture what was essential to their hearts, their personal striving, their conscience and memory.

...Few lines... to give you the possibility to get to know a man, Hasan A-Banna, oncerning whom there have been many rumours and lies. He was a man who surrendered and sacrificed his life for God. Those who heard him, changed. Those who accompanied him, loved him. Those who remember him are still moved. Assassinated and taken back by God at the age of forty-two, he left a teaching and a methodology which is simple and luminous: if you want to be loved by God, follow His Prophet (may the peace and blessings of God be upon him), and if God loves you and protects you... then have no fear!

Ramadan's admiration and reverence for Al-Banna's supremacist teachings is concerning and not metioned in a New York Times puff piece about him:

"Tariq Ramadan, a respected Swiss academic and Muslim scholar, had a job all lined up at the University of Notre Dame in 2004, but the Bush administration prevented him from entering the country. Government officials said he had contributed to a charity believed to have connections to terrorism.

...Now, in a move leading up to that hearing, a coalition of academic and civil liberties groups is calling on the Obama administration to break with the Bush administration’s policies on blocking visas of some foreign scholars, writers and activists.

In a letter being released Wednesday, the coalition says so-called ideological exclusion “compromises the vitality of academic and political debate in the United States at a time when that debate is exceptionally important...”

 New York Times

-----

Grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder wants Barack Obama as president

It's not surprising the grandson of the founder of the world largest Islamist movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, wants Barack Obama to be our next president.  Tariq Ramadan probably now thinks his visa will be approved so he can come to America and work.  Under the Bush administration it had been denied.  Democrats often befriend Islamists even though their agenda means the ultimate end of democracies.  They think their inclusiveness will win them over.  Time will tell.

I'll report back when his is approved under an Obama administration, if he wins tomorrow.  Do you think it will taken 6 months, a year or longer? 

Update: Around january 20, 2010 Tariq Ramadan visa ban lifted - CAIR is pleased!   Hillary Clinton personally lifted the ban. 

After Obama was elected Ramadan wrote:

BARACK OBAMA : HOPE WITHOUT NAIVITY  11/11/08

"...The eight years of George W Bush's presidency have accustomed us to so many errors, lies, wilful distortions and political manipulation that a page is about to be turned in the history of the United States. Since September 2001, the Bush regime has been obsessed by the ''global war on terror'' and the conflict with the "axis of evil." But over time, Americans have awakened to the emptiness of these bellicose and arrogant slogans.

 ...As president, Barack Obama could no longer justify, in the name of American national security, the deaths of the innocent, legalised torture, extraordinary rendition and other dis criminatory measures up to and including the granting of American visas. If Obama's diversity of origins gives cause for hope, it would only be insofar as these origins would permit him to open doors instead of close them..."

-----

Also see:

CAIR, the Muslim Brotherhood and more...

Tariq Ramadan's Notre Dame job offer

In 2004, Tariq Ramadan was offered a tenured position at Notre Dame but the sticky little problem of giving money to a charity that allegedly gave the money to Hamas caused the revocation of his visa. 

Why did Notre Dame even offer him a job in the first place?  Did they not do they homework?  Ramadan is the grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder, Hassan al Banna, assassinated in 1949 at the age of 43 after the brotherhood murdered the prime minister of Egypt.  The Muslim Brotherhood has worked for decades to spread themselves all over the world, including the U.S., and seeks to create global Islamic rule. Ok, so we can't pin the works of al Banna onto Ramadan, per se.  But,  apparently, Ramadan has said he does not reject his grandfather's work.

Ramadan appealed the denial of his visa with the help of the ACLU in January.  I guess, Notre Dame still has the job waiting for him.

Ramadan got caught up in a controversy recently when he said he supported the boycott of Italy's Turin Book Fair when Israel was invited as the guest of honor which he trys to explain on his website.  See all Islamists believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist, for the most part - they think it is their land. Of course they ignore the basic fact of Biblical and historic documentation to the contrary.  The Children of Israel and their land was even mentioned in the Quran while there is no mention of Palestine in either book.

Today, Ramadan is in Australia which caused some highbrows to be raised there.  The doubletalk of Ramadan is the typical talk of Islamists - you cannot take their words as truthful:

...Ramadan's message is highly seductive to a Western world terrified by Islamic radicalism. For Ramadan preaches the comforting message of an unthreatening Islam that can accommodate itself to modernity and to the West---in a charismatic style.

But closer scrutiny of what he actually says - and perhaps even more importantly, does not say - suggests the talented Mr Ramadan is an Islamist wolf in moderniser's clothing. To the Islamic world he says one thing; to credulous Western audiences quite another in language that is slippery, opaque, manipulative and disingenuous.

...The writer Caroline Fourest has analysed (his works) and her book, Brother Tariq: the Doublespeak of Tariq Ramadan has just been translated from French into English.

All who are concerned to halt the spread of radical Islamism should read this book. For it shows without doubt that the poster boy for Islamic reform is in fact one of the most sophisticated proponents of the global jihad.

Ramadan claims he has "no functional connection" with the Muslim Brotherhood. But he was trained at the Leicester Islamic Foundation in England, the controversial institution that propagates the doctrines of the key Islamist ideologues Maulana Maududi and Syed Qutb and which aims to promote "an Islamic social order in Great Britain".

And Ramadan has repeatedly said that his grandfather's views have "inspired" him and "there is nothing in this heritage that I reject".

So what is the heritage of Hassan al-Banna? He did not just promote the most reactionary and oppressive Islamic fundamentalism. He also devised a strategy of "graduated conquest" - pursued by the Muslim Brotherhood around the world - by which not only the countries of the former medieval Islamic caliphate, but all countries where Muslims live, are to be gradually Islamised and then taken over by an Islamic government under sharia law.

This is the "heritage" Ramadan endorses. The only difference is that he has developed a particularly subtle strategy for seducing the West into embracing Islamist thinking without realising what is happening.

...Ramadan is a pied piper leading the young to jihad by his mesmeric tunes. Through his appeal, he is probably the most dangerous Islamist in the Western world.

Thanks to the short-sightedness of the British Government, brother Tariq has been given a platform to radicalise innumerable young Muslims. Does Australia really want to follow suit?

The Australian